THE TWO SHEDS INTERVIEW by Julian Radbourne
E-mail: twosheds316@aol.com
Website: www.twoshedsreview.com
The name of J.J. Dillon is synonymous with the glory days of perhaps the greatest heel stable professional wrestling has ever seen – The Four Horsemen. But as well as acting as their manager, J.J. has been in and around the wrestling business for five decades. I had the chance to catch up with J.J. For this exclusive interview.
Julian Radbourne (JR): J.J., thanks for taking the time out of your schedule for this interview.
J.J. Dillon (JJ): Julian, the pleasure is all mine.
JR: Let’s start with some background information, where you’re from, that sort of thing.
JJ: I am from Trenton, NJ, where I first fell in love with professional wrestling and saw my first live match at the old National Guard Armory back in the mid-50’s.
JR: When did your interest in the wrestling business begin, and who were your favourites back then?
JJ: I remember watching TV wrestling on Thursday nights from the Capital Arena in Washington, DC, with Ray Morgan. In those days everyone loved Antonino “Argentina” Rocca, who wrestled in bare feet. He wrestled the likes of Karl Von Hess and Skull Murphy.
JR: When did you decide that you wanted to become a professional wrestler, and how did you go about finding a trainer?
JJ: In high school, I was not sure what I wanted to do with my life. I wanted to be a wrestler myself, but did not know how to go about breaking in. The Original Zebra Kid gave me some great advice. He told me to get a college education, and to learn the basic fundamentals of wrestling. Once I had a degree and had mastered the basics of wrestling, I could then decide where I wanted to go from there.
JR: How hard, or easy, was the training?
JJ: I actually never had formal training in the traditional sense. There were no such things as wrestling schools at that time. I played judo in high school and knew how to control my balance and to fall properly without getting hurt.
JR: How long did you train before your first match?
JJ: As I said, I really had no formal training to be a wrestler. I spent almost six years as a referee mainly in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. I was the third man in the ring with the likes of Bruno Sammartino, Killer Kowalski, Gorilla Monsoon, Dr. Bill Miller, Prof. Tanaka, George “The Animal” Steele, and the list goes on and on. I actually learned by observing and listening while in the ring with some of the greats in wrestling.
JR: Who did you face in your first match, and what were your thoughts and feelings going into that match?
JJ: I had two matches in 1962 that were added to a WWWF card by the local promoter in Vineland, NJ. However, I regard my first organized professional match as taking place in Dayton, Ohio in 1968. Ron Sanders and I wrestled the Hell’s Angels in a TV match.
JR: How would you rate your performance that night?
JJ: There is a tape out there of another match during that same year in which Arnold Skaaland and I wrestled the Hell’s Angels. All young, inexperienced wrestlers have a tendency to fiddle with, and constantly adjust their trunks. A dead giveaway for a rookie, and I was no different. I certainly didn’t embarrass myself that night. I remember the TV studio was very small, and the commentator was a guy named Ernie Roth, who later gained fame in the WWWF as “The Grand Wizard.”
JR: Who would you say was your toughest opponent during your wrestling career?
JJ: That is a tough question to answer. In the beginning, Hans Schmidt was very physical, as was Dick Murdoch later in my career. It may depend on how you define “toughest”, but no matter what your definition, anyone that ever faced “Andre the Giant” would have to give him the tip of the hat.
JR: No doubt you suffered from your fair share of injuries during your career, Which one was the worst?
JJ: On July 4th, of 1987, I faced the Road Warriors as part of the War Games at the old Omni in Atlanta. I separated my shoulder in that match and was put out of action for six weeks, by far my worst injury.
JR: A lot of fans who got into wrestling around the same time as me know you from your time as a manager. How does working as a manager compare with working as a wrestler?
JJ: A good manager makes a good wrestler become great. The fact that I wrestled for so many years gave me the experience and confidence to be a good manager. My job as a manager was to help create interest and to further the issue at hand which usually led to a confrontation in the ring between my charge and his opponent. At that point, fans bought tickets to see the match itself, and my role became secondary. I worked the corner as if I was in the ring myself. How could I expect a fan to have interest in a match where I was involved, if I wasn’t interested myself?
JR: Your most famous “clients” were, of course, the Four Horsemen. How did you come to be associated with Ric Flair and his men?
JJ: I wish I could tell you that I masterminded the creation of the Four Horsemen, but the creation of the Horsemen was a spontaneous thing. Flair was World Champion, and I managed Tully, the National Champion, and Ole and Arn were World Tag Champions. We just happened to do an interview as a group one week on TBS. At the time, collectively we had all the titles and all the bragging rights, and on the interview we were full of ourselves. Arn coined the phrase and the four-finger sign, and the Horsemen were born.
JR: What was the most memorable angle you were a part of while working with the Horsemen?
JJ: I think the taped incident in the parking lot of Jim Crockett Promotions where we hired a cameraman to record an ambush on Dusty Rhodes that was intended to send a message to all other wrestlers to not mess with us was something people still talk about today almost twenty years later. The incident was so “real” that many fans demanded that we be arrested and face criminal charges.
JR: How would you rate the Horsemen when compared to other wrestling stables, for example, the New World Order, the Dangerous Alliance, or Evolution?
JJ: I regard the Four Horsemen as the greatest stable of all time. We were a unique collection of individuals that excelled collectively. Everyone was already successful on their own, but together we took it to a higher dimension. The toughest test is the test of time. It has been twenty years, and fans still talk about the Horsemen even today.
JR: As well as working as a manager and a wrestler, you’ve also worked in several other areas in the wrestling business. What were these, and what did your duties entail?
JJ: I always had an interest in the creative side of the wrestling business; i.e., the building of a TV wrestling show and live event matchmaking. I retired from the ring in 1989 and was recruited by Vince McMahon and the WWF. I worked with Vince on the talent management and creative side of the business at the executive level for almost eight years before resigning. I ended my career with WCW up until they went out of business in 2001.
JR: In the past couple of years fans have seen you in NWA:TNA and Major League Wrestling. How does working in the wrestling business today compare with when you first began?
JJ: My appearances with TNA and with MLW were brief to say the least. In both cases I was probably guilty of thinking with my heart rather than using good judgment. I am often asked if I miss the business, and I answer that I only miss what the business used to be. Change is inevitable with everything, including wrestling. However, change is not always for the better.
JR: Apart from working for TNA and MLW, what other projects have you undertaken recently?
JJ: I spent the last seven or eight months writing my autobiography with Scott Teal and Philip Varriale. Scott co-wrote Ole’s book, and this was Philip’s first venture into writing a book. The book is titled “Wrestlers Are Like Seagulls” . . . from McMahon to McMahon. You can go to www.jjdillon.com and click onto the title for more information. The book is being released in mid-June, and I expect a lot of people to be pleasantly surprised. Initially it will only be available through the Internet, and I am signing and personalizing copies to everyone that orders the book prior to the release date. A little way of say “thank you” to the readers.
JR: Looking at the big picture, what’s your opinion of the wrestling business as it currently stands, and if you thought anything needed changing, how would you go about changing it?
JJ: I love wrestling and I will never cease to be a fan, but I am not thrilled with the current product. We have gotten away from the basics. As a baseball fan, I relate a lot of things to baseball. There is a reason that every spring all the teams and all the players convene in Florida and Arizona to go over fundamentals. Wrestling has gotten away from the fundamentals. I am also alarmed that the “coaches” that can teach the fundamentals are becoming fewer and fewer each year.
JR: What advice would you give to someone wanting to break into the wrestling business, be it as a wrestler, referee, manager, or anything?
JJ: My first advice would be to take a hard look in the mirror and ask yourself, “Why am I doing this?” If it is for the money and the glory, then I say do something else. You have to first have a love and a passion for wrestling. It is a lot of hard work and more disappointment than success. The fun part is the time performing, and the hard part is everything leading up to the sound of the bell.
JR: Most of the wrestlers I’ve interviewed have told me embarrassing stories from their time on the road. Are there any stories you’d like to share with us today?
JJ: I recommend that everyone pick up a copy of my book. You won’t be disappointed. There are loads of stories from behind the scenes, good and bad, happy and sad.
JR: J.J., I’m afraid time is against us, so let’s begin to wrap things up. Where can fans see you in the upcoming weeks and months?
JJ: I am scheduling a personal appearance schedule to help promote my book. I will be attending the Mid-Atlantic Legends FanFest in Charlotte on August 19/20/21/ The evening of the 19th I am having a Q & A session to answer questions about my book or anything else the fans want to discuss. The following week I am appearing at WrestleReunion II in King of Prussia, PA, where I will be appearing to help salute the legendary Bruno Sammartino, a great wrestler and a wonderful human being that was very influential in my early career.
JR: Where can fans find out more about you on the Internet?
JJ: Check out www.jjdillon.com. In addition to information about ordering signed copies of my new book, there are lots of new features with more being added each week. You can also e-mail me at horsemandillon@yahoo.com.
JR: Any final comments for your fans?
JJ: Wrestling fans are the greatest in the world. None are more loyal that wrestling fans. Many of you have e-mailed me with very kind and wonderful messages sharing your past memories. I try to find the time to answer as many as I can, but I want to take this opportunity to say “thank you” to you for your loyal support over all these years. May God bless you all!
JR: J.J., it’s been an honour and a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for your time, and good luck with your career.
JJ: The pleasure has been all mine. Hopefully I will get to meet many of you in Charlotte and/or King of Prussia in August.
