For better or worse, Wrestlemania 21 is in the books. Just like with the majority of these events it was good, bad and ugly but, judging by the amount of columns written about it both before and after, it has been the hot topic of conversation recently and that’s what it is supposed to do. During the week I had a chat with fellow wrestling columnist Linda Robin to see if we could make sense of it all.
Lee says:
Firstly, thank you for your time.
Linda says:
That’s okay.
Lee says:
Might as well start with the opening match. Rey’s new outfit looked good but his mask seemed to be giving him a few problems. Bet he won’t be wearing that one again anytime soon.
Linda says:
Yeah, that mask was slipping. He kept trying to tighten it all the time. The match was okay, not great. They seemed to mess up a few times but I liked the way it came across. I just wish Eddie would have tried to cheat to win, which would have added some humor to things.
Lee says:
I thought it started really well, some of the sharpest exchanges of the whole night, but it lost its way after the start and they appeared to wander through the middle section quite aimlessly.
Linda says:
I don’t know if they felt rushed but they definitely weren’t together like I expected they would be. In the end it was nothing more than a good Smackdown match.
Lee says:
I thought at one point that Rey had taken a bang on the head but over time you could tell that it was just that things weren’t working for some reason. If they wrestled again tonight they could probably do a much better job, just the way it goes sometimes I guess. I’m glad Eddie didn’t turn heel on the night but do you think his turn can be far away now?
Linda says:
I think his turn is right around the corner. Eddie is like Ric Flair, he thrives on playing the heel.
Lee says:
I don’t mind turning Eddie heel but they’ve got to do it properly this time. Last time, they turned him but kept him cool and entertaining and the fans didn’t want to let go. He’s got to go after the main guys and in a nasty way.
Linda says:
What about the ‘Money in the bank’ ladder match?
Lee says:
I said in my pre-Wrestlemania column that creativity rather than brutality was what was needed and I thought they did that. Shelton was the star for me though Benoit was a close second. I like the fact that it was fought safely (as safely as ladder matches can be) it was just nicely suicidal, nothing potentially fatal.
Linda says:
Benjamin ruled this match and Benoit killed himself out there. There have been so many ladder matches you would think they’d all start looking the same but this one was just outstanding.
Lee says:
I loved the ‘running up the steps’ into the clothesline by Shelton. That’s exactly what I mean. I’d rather see new ways of using the ladder than guys just beating the snot out of eachother with it or falling off it through stacked tables.
Linda says:
That move was amazing, Shelton is so athletic there’s almost nothing he can’t do. This guy is definitely the future of the WWE.
Lee says:
I read that you said it was your match of the night. Still sticking by that?
Linda says:
Even thought HBK/Angle was excellent, I have to give the ‘Money in the bank’ ladder match the match of the night honors, these guys did everything they could think of to please the fans. They didn’t take any short cuts at all and remember most of them are not young. All six guys put their bodies on the line, which they didn’t have to seeing as they’ve got nothing to prove.
Lee says:
Did you think Kane did enough to justify his place in the match, seeing as it could have gone to a smaller guy with similar abilities to the others? I thought he was a bit lost out there. He wasn’t presented as enough of a ‘big man’ (like Show would have) and he ended up just looking slower and less athletic than the others.
Linda says:
Kane didn’t add what the others did. I wish Matt Hardy would have been in there instead but Kane managed to look okay. For me the other guys were so watchable that honestly I really didn’t notice how weak Kane was in comparison.
Lee says:
Did the ‘dead man’ and the ‘legend killer’ do anything for you?
Linda says:
I thought this was Taker’s best match and best performance for quite some time. He was quick and seemed to care about being in that ring.
Lee says:
I was expecting the same old Taker match and then he took a back-drop, he never does those (well, rarely). For me that was a sign that he was up for the match and it got me interested.
Linda says:
He wanted to give his fans something to remember, many are saying that it might have been his last Wrestlemania match. If it was then he did a great job, as did Randy with that injured shoulder. I also liked that the match didn’t seem rushed.
Lee says:
Beforehand it did have all the hallmarks of a seven-minute special, probably not as long as Taker’s entrance, but it built nicely.
Linda says:
The chemistry was there and it’s unfortunate that Orton will be out for a while. Undertaker finally seemed to have someone decent to work with in the ring.
Lee says:
It’s a shame when Taker puts in a performance like this because it makes you realise how needed he is on Smackdown and at the house shows. And it makes you wonder why he gets given crap like Heidenreich so often?
Linda says:
True. I didn’t expect such a good match, I really thought it would be short and probably fail to live up to the hype but what a surprise I got.
Lee says:
You think Taker was putting more in because it was possibly his last Wrestlemania match?
Linda says:
Maybe, or he just wanted to make Randy look good. Orton definitely seemed more intense out there than usual.
Lee says:
Good spot with Cowboy Bob coming out with the cast on.
Linda says:
I liked that too. I expected it but he carried it off well, it was very funny.
Lee says:
You think Orton will rejoin Evolution or be moved over to Smackdown?
Linda says:
I figured he would go to Smackdown but that was before his I read about his injury. It looks like there could be a feud with Kane/Orton when he can wrestle again.
Lee says:
And he did mention Evolution in his promo on Batista and how Batista was the odd one out.
Linda says:
And how he respected Hunter.
Lee says:
Now I thought it was a good move to use Eugene to bring Hassan onto Wrestlemania, even I felt sorry for him. I guess we have to give Hogan his spot seeing as he was inducted into the Hall of fame. Wrestling and specifically the WWE owe him for what he did so I suppose he’s entitled to this adulation once a year.
Linda says:
Did you notice that when Eugene came out there was very little crowd reaction for him? Apparently it’s because his music wasn’t in time with his entrance.
Lee says:
I think he’s still pretty popular so that sounds like the more logical reason. I was disappointed that Hogan didn’t pose afterwards with Eugene. It would have made more sense to me.
Linda says:
You’re right, since Eugene does imitate other wrestler’s mannerisms, but I kind of liked Eugene leaving Hogan out there to have his moment. I think it came off perfectly with the posing at the top of the ramp in front of the flag. And no talking from him too.
Lee says:
Well Hogan was never much of a talker, ‘Brother!’ so it was probably a good thing.
Linda says:
A VERY good thing! I liked the segment and I liked that Hogan didn’t have a match with Hassan, this way Hogan won’t be the guy that pins Hassan for the first time. That honor should go to HBK at Backlash.
Lee says:
It probably would have killed any heat that Hassan has left if he’d lost to Hogan, and he’s running on borrowed heat as it is. Okay, if we’re going to talk about HBK/Angle, I guess we’d better mention the headlocks. There were a few at the outset of the contest.
Linda says:
There were way too many at the beginning. The match got off to a slow start, lots of holds.
Lee says:
I wouldn’t have minded if some of the moves were different but it always came back to the headlock takedown and hold. If they were trying to show that HBK could wrestle as good as Kurt then they only succeeded in making it look like he was short of ideas.
Linda says:
I have noticed since Kurt had the neck surgeries that he does a lot more mat work than before. I think it is more a case of Kurt trying to keep things a little more sedate.
Lee says:
I thought Kurt’s conditioning was better this time, he didn’t look so blown up and out of breath after ten minutes.
Linda says:
I’d say that Kurt has slimmed down and he doesn’t have that bloated look during his matches. He appears much healthier than he has in recent months.
Lee says:
I was surprised at how well their styles came together, they seemed very compatible. Not the awkwardness that affected the Eddie/Rey match. I don’t remember one stuttered move from HBK/Angle, everything was very smooth.
Linda says:
I know everything just about flowed. Their chemistry was just so strong that watching those two in the ring was a treat.
Lee says:
Nice dive onto the table by HBK too. Reminded me of the spots he used to do back in the old days, like the ones against Mankind and Diesel. Maybe he’s getting some of his daredevil spirit back?
Linda says:
This match meant a lot to Shawn. I feel he wanted to prove something, not only to the fans but to himself as well.
Lee says:
I liked the multiple near-falls, for me it was the most exciting match of the night and the one with the best end section by far. I was a little disappointed they did a HBK tap-out finish, I’d have rather he passed out in the ankle lock refusing to quit and the ref could call the bell on him. It was a good put over by Shawn.
Linda says:
I liked the tapping out because Shawn escaped it a few times earlier and you just knew that he had nothing left in him with which to fight out for a final time.
Lee says:
I think we both feel that Angle is in line for a run at the WWE Championship but do you think there’s any chance HBK will get back into the title race on Raw and what does he need to do to get there?
Linda says:
Kurt is surely next in line on Smackdown as long as his health stays good. I don’t know about Shawn, I think he likes things the way they are now. I don’t feel he wants that belt because it means doing house shows every weekend and I think that’s something he wants to avoid.
Lee says:
What about a turn or a reunion with HHH?
Linda says:
I would like to see HBK turn heel, a reunion with Hunter? That I don’t know. Part of me would like to see that again, another part says no, they did it once and I feel the should stay away from each other.
Lee says:
You think that, with what HBK said on Raw, there’s a few more matches between these two?
Linda says:
Definitely. I have a feeling that we might see their next one at Summerslam.
Lee says:
I’d like to see a duration gimmick used, maybe an Iron Man match or a best of three falls contest, do you think their age and respective physical conditions would allow it?
Linda says:
I don’t think they could do the Iron Man match anymore, maybe three falls; that I could see.
Lee says:
If the draft lottery happens, you think either of these two will switch shows?
Linda says:
I would love Kurt to go to RAW.
Lee says:
Apart from HBK, I’d look forward to seeing Angle against Benoit again.
Linda says:
I kind of got tired of those two. That’s why the HBK match was exciting, they’d never worked with each other before.
Lee says:
You think a match between Angle/Benoit would be boring?
Linda says:
No, but I would hold off on that one for a while. Those two are excellent wrestlers, I would just like to see Kurt get some new guys to work with. Benoit and Angle have been doing great on their respective shows and a long feud between them would probably be a step backwards.
Lee says:
Okay, I’ll let you have first crack at the Austin/Piper segment.
Linda says:
Thanks! Austin was far better on Raw than at Wrestlemania. At Raw he was much more into it.
Lee says:
I thought it was a shame Carlito came out at Wrestlemania, I was just starting to enjoy it.
Linda says:
Carlito ruined it for you?
Lee says:
Not ruined it (he’s too good for that) but I would have liked to see it go somewhere between Piper/Austin.
Linda says:
Me too, I don’t know why they felt the need to add Carlito. It just didn’t seem that Austin was very comfortable out there.
Lee says:
Even though hindsight makes us think that Austin was really good on the mic, he always did far better in backstage segments than he did out in the ring so it was no surprise to me. All of his best promo stuff was done in opposition to McMahon and for me Vince carried Austin to good segments.
Linda says:
I just thought that he would be more relaxed and they would gel but Piper/Austin really had no chemistry at all.
Lee says:
Apart from the slaps.
Linda says:
Yeah, the only thing Austin said that I found funny was “Thank you, you crazy bastard” and slapped him, that was funny. Other than that he brought nothing to that segment
Lee says:
True. I was more pissed when I realised the Sumo match was a work. I pressed fast forward on the video as soon as I figured it out. Talk about ruining the only possible interesting part of that match – who would win?
Linda says:
The fans got nothing from this match. I still don’t get the reason behind it, for me it was the worst part of the show.
Lee says:
Definitely. And it’s quite an insult to a very traditional sport.
Linda says:
The reasons behind the Sumo match were totally confusing. I don’t know why they did it. The time taken up by this could have been given to another match.
Lee says:
Or a blank screen?
Linda says:
There you go.
Linda says:
For me to rate Trish/Christy’s match above this Sumo garbage tells you something.
Lee says:
Speaking of the women’s match, my friend Mai wanted to know what we thought of it. I reckon Christy did okay (which was as good as could be expected). Do you think Christy can take all of the blame? She messed up one maybe two times but she looked no worse than the divas that came up through Tough Enough.
Linda says:
No, Christy was put in there because of her playboy shoot. Blame Vince for sticking her in a wrestling match, I give her a lot of credit for hanging in there.
Lee says:
Should Vince have gone with Molly and/or Victoria even though they’ve both feuded with Trish before?
Linda says:
Yeah, I think Vince should be pushing both women and since Victoria is the face she should have received the title shot instead of Christy. What do you think?
Lee says:
The triple threat would have been my choice just to add a new twist to it but ultimately I would have preferred something different so I would have brought Alexis Laree up two months before the event. From what I’ve seen she’s a good performer and she would have done a decent job despite Wrestlemania being her debut PPV.
Linda says:
I agree about the triple threat match and also about Alexis. I read that she’s a little upset Vince hasn’t brought her up to the full roster yet. She’s been training in OVW since 2003 and Alexis is definitely needed in that division
Lee says:
I think her time will come, it’s only natural to be impatient. Although Trish did a good job with Christy it felt a little like she was going through the motions. It would have been a much bigger test for her if her opponent was a legitimate worker.
Linda says:
Trish did a good job but yeah she didn’t exactly kill herself out there. I don’t blame Christy or Trish and truthfully it wasn’t as horrible as I was expecting. The ending just died. It was so blah, I don’t get why Trish didn’t continue to beat on Christy or why they even bothered with Lita when she just stood out there and stared at Trish.
Lee says:
I thought several endings during the night were over way too quick, very little build up to the falls.
Linda says:
Well look at Cena’s win. He’s basically getting it from JBL the whole time then all of a sudden he does the FU and he wins, talk about a lackluster ending
Lee says:
I didn’t see the point in JBL dominating the early part of the action, it killed the crowd who’d cheered too long and too loud for Shawn and couldn’t regain the enthusiasm in time to care.
Linda says:
I agree. Also, I found JBL to be really bad. I’ve seen a few of his PPV’s matches and he’s put a lot into them but last night was not one of them
Lee says:
I think they were under orders not to wander or brawl outside too much for fear of detracting from the main event. It’s a shame that a title match ends up being the set up match for the main event. I’d have put split the two main events up.
Linda says:
Why put those matches on back to back? Put one at the middle of the show and keep the other for the end. That really hurt the JBL/Cena match. After the HBK/Angle match things were not really the same.
Lee says:
Did you think it was out of character for JBL not to have his cabinet with him at ringside? It’s not as if the guy revels in fairness and equality.
Linda says:
I don’t get why they were not right there, that hit me right away. Maybe they were making it seem like he didn’t feel threatened by Cena?
Lee says:
True, ‘why would a wrestling GOD need to worry about a street thug?’ But he’s won with interference before so I don’t see why he wouldn’t try it at Wrestlemania. Apart from anything else, they could have run a spot where the Cabinet get kicked out from ringside and that might have woken the crowd up.
Linda says:
That’s what was missing. If the cabinet had been out there Cena could have taken care of them and the fans would have gone crazy, the match would have come off looking so much better.
Lee says:
I think JBL must have been surprised at the booking decisions too because he seemed lost out there, like he was expecting something else to happen.
Linda says:
He’s looked better in Smackdown matches. I read that neither JBL or Cena were happy with their match. The time allowed for it was reduced by about five minutes due to the show running overtime.
Lee says:
Still could have done more with the adjusted time though. To blame the time is to say that longer matches are automatically better. Better matches are better. And finally on to the last match, Batista against HHH for the World Heavyweight Championship. Do you think it delivered all that it promised?
Linda says:
It was just what I expected. HHH took over the first half but I couldn’t see Batista getting squashed so for me that was okay. Once Batista got in there the tempo did pick up and I will say that HHH took a lot of bumps. I thought he sold very well and Batista was okay, I can’t say anything negative about his work last night.
Lee says:
Even in comparison to how he looked against Orton on Raw?
Linda says:
I thought he looked much better with Orton but it was a much shorter match too.
Lee says:
And less pressure. And Orton’s better suited to compliment Batista’s style. I just thought the match would have been better served as a highlight to Batista and it came across as a HHH led match. Not a complaint against HHH, I just think fans tend to rally around underdogs like HBK, sympathetic support is harder to get for a monster like Batista.
Linda says:
I had low expectations of this match so for me it was better than I expected.
Lee says:
You think HHH’s blood was a sign that they knew before the match that it would slow in the middle? A bit of colour always wakes the fans up.
Linda says:
I think the juice job was done because he was going to lose and he wanted to have some of the glory for himself. That’s my theory on Hunter. When he bleeds like that, nine times out of ten you know he’s going to lose.
Lee says:
Sounds like a generalisation to me! My only complaint about HHH taking the main part of the offence in the early going was that I thought Batista was meant to be a monster?
Linda says:
But if Batista did at Wrestlemania what he did to Randy the next night on Raw then the match would have been over in a matter of minutes. Remember, Hunter is supposed to be ‘the best’ and in my opinion he needed to get the offence on Batista first. Although it might have gone on a little too long.
Lee says:
I didn’t mind the beating, I just think they got it the wrong way round. Batista should have gone on the offensive first because of his power but Flair could have helped turn it around and HHH would then take Batista apart like a wrestling technician. It would have made more sense to me that way.
Linda says:
I see what you are saying but I feel Hunter to come off strong first was the way to go. Let him dominate for the early part of the match and then bring on the monster.
Lee says:
I think we’ll end it there before the name-calling and slapping starts! Do you feel that the less than perfect main events will ruin the memory of a pretty decent show?
Linda says:
No, I don’t. The ladder match, HBK/Angle and Hogan taking out Hassan went over very well. The very bad really didn’t take up much time; like the ‘super’ Sumo match, the women’s match and JBL/Cena. I’ll put it like this, the good totally outweighed the bad.
Lee says:
Should we journalistically stoop so low as to give it marks out of 10?
Linda says:
9/10. I loved it.
Lee says:
I’ll take a lesser view and give it a 7/10 but I did enjoy it. Lots of really good but quite a bit of really bad. How do you think it compared to last year’s PPV? Wrestlemania XX promised more on paper but failed to deliver on so many counts.
Linda says:
I thought this Wrestlemania was much better, it offered so much more entertainment. The only two things that stick in the memory from last year were Benoit’s win, which I loved, and Goldberg/Lesnar getting booed, which I also loved. This PPV had so many memorable moments.
Lee says:
And what about the future, with Batista and Cena as the new champs? Long title reigns?
Linda says:
That I don’t know, if I had to bet right now I would say Cena will hold on longer than Batista. Hopefully I’m wrong and both men will really show just how capable they are with the titles.
Lee says:
You think the two ex-champs will continue to be the No1 contenders or is that more likely for HHH than JBL?
Linda says:
I would imagine Hunter won’t be too far away from the title picture for a while yet. I think JBL will be done after Judgement Day. If Kurt Angle stays fairly healthy I definitely see him next in line for Cena.
Lee says:
You think Cena can get his wrestling back up to form or will he still rely on his charisma?
Linda says:
I will go with the latter, I think his charisma will be what makes Cena a must-see for the fans.
Lee says:
I think you’re right. Well, I reckon that ought to do it. Once again thank you for your time Linda and it’s been a pleasure talking to you.
Linda says:
Thank you Lee. This was a great idea of yours, I’ve enjoyed discussing Wrestlemania with you and we could maybe do this again for another major WWE PPV some time?
Lee says:
Once I’ve recovered from Wrestlemania, I’ll think about it!
